Dental Practice Heroes

The Hybrid Ownership Model for Ultimate Work-Life Balance w/ Dr. Jennifer Haddad

• Paul Etchison, Jennifer Haddad • Season 3 • Episode 89

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Practice ownership doesn’t have to mean running an office or signing a lease. Dr. Jennifer Haddad designed her practice around a hybrid model that keeps her schedule and clinical decisions all within her control. In this episode, she shares how it works inside an existing practice, the benefits of this non-traditional path, and how she began building a brand before ownership. Tune in to find out if this model is right for the career and lifestyle you want!

Topics discussed in this episode:

  • Struggling with work-life balance as a new mother
  • Logistics of the co-working hybrid model
  • Balancing responsibilities and patient care
  • Starting a brand before ownership
  • Building a brand based on referrals


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Paul Etchison:

What if you could grow your patient base, make your own schedule and practice on your own terms, without the stress of practice ownership? Today, you're going to learn about a new hybrid practice model that makes all that possible. It's not a partnership and it's not an associateship. It's a flexible setup that lets today's guests build a brand almost entirely on referrals, stay in full control of our business and avoid the burnout of traditional ownership. Stick around to learn more and see if this model is for you.

Paul Etchison:

You are listening to Dental Practice Heroes, where we help you to create a team and system driven dental practice, one that allows you to practice less and make more money. I'm Dr Paul Etcheson, a dental coach, author of two books on dental practice management and the owner of a five doctor practice in the South suburbs of Chicago. I want to show you how being intentional about ownership can create a practice that supports your life instead of consuming it. So if you're ready to create a true business that runs without you, you're in the right place. Let's get started. Hello and welcome back to the Dental Practice Heroes podcast. I'm your host, dr Paul Etchison, and I got a very awesome guest today. We got Dr Jennifer Haddad on and she's a practice owner in a hybrid sort of different sense that you might not have heard of, and it's really interesting. So I'm excited to interview her on that. But welcome to the podcast, jennifer. How are you today?

Jennifer Haddad:

Thank you so much for having me as well. I'm really excited to kind of share what it is that we've been discussing behind the scenes, so looking forward to it.

Paul Etchison:

I think the listeners are going to love this, because it's something I've never heard of and I was super interested in it. Let's start with just talking about 2013, until you stepped into practice ownership, and just give us a little backstory.

Jennifer Haddad:

I graduated in 2013 from USC as a female dentist. You are now walking into the world and obviously you're looking at your options. You're looking at residency right, agd programs, fellowships something to kind of add to what it is you've learned in dental school because you learned the basics in dental school, and so I was kind of toying with the ideas of, okay, do I get additional years of experience or do I just go straight into dental practice? I was very fortunate that I had the opportunity of coming across a dental practice where the doctor was also faculty at USC. I was one of the top students in my class and so he was looking for an associate, and when I was talking to the doctor, he said listen, why don't you go ahead and join me and I will really take the time and invest. This is kind of like a mini residency where I basically focused on biomimetic dentistry and this is where what I learned in dental school through USC, we have our mentor, dr Pascal Monnier, and that was the core of the dentistry that I loved. I loved the art of it. That's what I knew. That's kind of the niche I wanted to go into, so I wasn't much of the surgery type of dentist, I wanted to do more of the art, cosmetic aspect of it.

Jennifer Haddad:

So, lo and behold, seven years into this practice, I focused on really honing down, on learning, learning, learning. I was working five to six days a week and that's a lot when you are in the dental field. It's a lot of time, it's a lot of and you do. You could get burnt out fast forward. I get married and my husband says okay, you have to cut down. We need to spend time together. I want to go to breakfast with you on the weekends. So I ended up cutting down from corporate dentistry. Now I am four days a week at this very unique practice where I am just doing quality dentistry. And now I have a family. Now I had my first son in 2019.

Jennifer Haddad:

I became a mom, and what's the first thing that you think about when you are a female? Is that okay? What if I just want to stay home and be a mom and take care of my family? What if I don't want to go back to work? And I had this discussion with my husband. He said listen, why don't you try going back and see if you like it? If not, then you stop. I go back six months later after maternity leave, and I love my craft, I love what I do leave and I love my craft, I love what I do. The only thing that was really holding me back from really going full force was the fact that I was having a hard time commuting, so then I started having to. I was forced to look for an alternative option.

Paul Etchison:

How far were you commuting?

Jennifer Haddad:

It was about like an hour and 15. By the way, I'm in LA. We're not even. I was not even that far, but because of the traffic it killed me. I'm just. I was probably like 30 minutes away, yeah, but it just the time.

Paul Etchison:

It's frustrating In.

Jennifer Haddad:

LA is a lot. So that was really, I think, the turning point of okay, this is the situation, now what do I do? I was so close to getting my own practice and at that point the one thing that I was thinking about was well, I still want to have another child. So having a practice is literally having a child, it's having a baby, you know. So then, now am I going to really be a good mom?

Jennifer Haddad:

And this is, I think, something that a lot of female dentists are torn with, because they want to be very successful in what it is that they do. They want to be an owner, and there is a really kind of a, I would say, stigma of like, as a dentist, to be successful, you have to be a practice, owner of a physical practice, of an office, right, and you have your employees and you know, now you are the boss. But then there's the other side, where you have a family. So how do I balance all this? Anyways, during COVID, I get in touch with one of my colleagues, the office that I'm at now. I'm like listen, I have my book of business. He was kind of skeptical, like, really, you know, you don't need anything from my office. I'm like, ok, well, why don't I rent a chair?

Jennifer Haddad:

So we started talking about that, I started looking into that and, at the end of the day, the reality is is that you essentially want to go into a practice. You, the reality is is that you essentially want to go into a practice. You want to feel supported. Both practice owners want to feel supported. Right, and what would be beneficial for the both of the owners in a situation like that? So we talked about it and we said, ok, let's, let's create this arrangement where you bring your book of business, I come in, I will give you a percentage of what it is that would cover the overhead supplies. We will share assistance. I will take over certain days, he will take over certain days. If there are days that we want to overlap, we'll arrange that. We have our hygienist that we share and essentially it's like a lowkey partnership, right, without having that commitment.

Jennifer Haddad:

And what's nice is that the practice owner is sitting here and not having to market, not having to bear the additional costs of trying to have another doctor in the office, and then, on my end, I'm here, I'm able to, I have a home for my patients and I'm able to work hand in hand with someone else in the office, where you know practice ownership to me is could be a lonely environment. And that was another thing that kept running through my mind is I do not want to be alone, I'd rather be. I love collaborating, I love being with others, because I think you're stronger with another person, you're stronger when you collaborate. You put two brains instead of one and that's what I have realized has helped me grow, because I had my mentor right when I first started and if I didn't have him and if he didn't invest all the time in me, I wouldn't be where I am today. Invest all the time in me, I wouldn't be where I am today.

Jennifer Haddad:

So at the end of the day, we ended up arranging this where if I was gone for a week, or I needed to go or I couldn't see my patients, he would essentially be the referring doctor or dentist and vice versa. So it's been really, really great because we've been able to really support each other. We both have families, so we understand the value of being able to pull away from your practice and really having the ability to kind of take your mind and your efforts and your energy away from that so you can really be present on what it is that you are doing elsewhere. So that's a huge, huge thing. The other cool thing is that I come in my specialty is biomimetic dentistry, his specialty is airway dentistry and so we can sit and collaborate and we could sit and exchange information and talk about cases together. So it's really a cool situation.

Paul Etchison:

Yeah, I've never heard of anything like it. Now, logistically, how large is this practice that you're working out of that you're renting?

Jennifer Haddad:

So this practice has four chairs, four dental chairs.

Paul Etchison:

So it's difficult for you guys to be there at the same time seeing patients. I imagine out of four chairs.

Jennifer Haddad:

Is it possible? It's possible. We are not a high volume type of a practice, so we're not sitting and trying to see as many patients throughout the day. It's more of a concierge type of a high quality dentistry practice, and so my range of patients are between one to seven at most, I would say, for the day.

Paul Etchison:

Okay, so if you're there, how many days a week are you there?

Jennifer Haddad:

I'm there Tuesdays and Thursdays. There are some days that I am there three days a week. Some days I'm there four. It just depends.

Paul Etchison:

I guess it's not a partner, but you're the practice owner.

Jennifer Haddad:

My teammate, my colleague, so the practice owner of the office, right, I know, because this is a different model. Anyways, he's there Monday, wednesday, fridays. There are times where we overlap on a Tuesday or a Thursday as well.

Paul Etchison:

Okay, so you found an arrangement that works out for both parties, which is great. It's essentially I mean, it's kind of like he has an associate to some extent, but it's like very independent.

Jennifer Haddad:

My title is an associate, if you want to look at really like the terminology of it all.

Paul Etchison:

So what happens as far as, like? I'm just curious about, like, the phone number, the branding. How do you keep those things separate, or are they more intertwined?

Jennifer Haddad:

So this is very interesting because we've been really toying with this idea since we've started up until this point, and the biggest thing is that we have our own branding. Essentially, we have our own entities. We are completely separate, because we also are focused on our specialty as separate dentists. So the thing is is that I'm not even on his website. He's not on my website, but we're in the same location.

Paul Etchison:

I could see this working very well If somebody was in my office doing this and I liked them. And they treat patients good, correct. Have you guys ever ran into a situation with an upset patient where maybe your upset patient is tarnishing the image of his practice or his upset patient is tarnishing the image of your practice?

Jennifer Haddad:

You know what. Thankfully, that really hasn't been an issue. I think one thing that we've come across as an issue that's been a little reoccurring is I have my book of business. They were used to one practice before. Now they come to a new practice. Things are a little different.

Jennifer Haddad:

There's a lot of comparison of like, hey, well, you know, the other office used to do X, y, z, why don't we do it this way?

Jennifer Haddad:

And the cool thing is is that you really evolve as a practice owner, I would say when, again, you are collaborating with each other and you could literally pick at each other's brains and say, okay, this is something I really like about how you did it, this is something I really like about how you did it.

Jennifer Haddad:

And you kind of mesh the two and you say, okay, this is how we're going to do it here. You want to keep it consistent. You want to keep it so that it doesn't you're not having two different systems for the same staffing. But the biggest thing here is and this is where I took the time is really getting to know who it is that you're going to be joining, if you're going to be doing some type of a model of this sort, because you also need to have certain things that are common ground. You can't be completely different, but if you have an overall basis, the foundations of very similar practices, and you're intrigued by your colleague and he's intrigued by you or she's intrigued by you, then it'll work beautifully and you basically learn from one another. You support one another.

Paul Etchison:

Now you said you share staff. Yes, how does that work? How did this transition into this? Because possibly these people were just working three days a week and now they're working five. I mean so all the staffing is handled by the other doctor.

Jennifer Haddad:

The original practice. When I had come in, they were working four days a week and obviously if he worked just three or four days, right then he has his staff there. We did have to hire another assistant, and so that was a fun little exercise we got to both do because we were both involved in that. I was looking for an assistant, he was too, and then both of us decided, ok, this is who's going to be part of our team. We basically cross train them so that they are familiar with the way that I like a setup as well as his setup, and so if, for any reason, one is out, one is sick or on vacation, then we could utilize the other assistant and they're comfortable Hygienist. He had one and then once I joined, we were like, okay, we're going to need another. So that's where we hired another hygienist and because now I have entered my practice into his, essentially grows his practice and it's really cool because it's a win-win for both.

Paul Etchison:

Do you foresee any time that possibly he would want the space back where that could be problematic, where, like, his practice grows, where he's like I'm ready to open these days now?

Jennifer Haddad:

You know, what's really cool is we've been together now for four years and now we are talking about partnership, and so I think within the time span we've really I am a people person.

Jennifer Haddad:

I like to work with people, and as much as I like to be the one in charge, I also like to be the one who is such a team player, because, at the end of the day, if I were to take myself out of this equation and put myself alone, I could do it, and I have no problem stepping away tomorrow and owning my own practice. I am very, very comfortable with that. But now, when I do think about being on my own, I feel like it's not as advantageous for me, my patients, my practice compared to being with someone else and really working with others. And he's always said too, like, if you are happy, you know, or if at one point you decide to go out on your own, I will support you. So there's really a level of respect and enjoyment of work because we're there collaborating together, but you have to find that. You have to find that it's not something that's very common.

Paul Etchison:

Because I love this model, but then, at the same time, I feel like it requires two people, just two cool people Like just be cool man, Just be like normal.

Jennifer Haddad:

You know, don't get the big ego. You gotta be cool. No, that's right, you have to. You have to go hand in hand. You have to think about okay, you can't have an ego, and that's something that depends on the person's personality, the person's wants and needs. What are they trying to achieve here? At the end of the day? For me it works out beautifully because I have work-life balance.

Paul Etchison:

What is different from I mean, as far as your responsibilities go, it's like ownership responsibilities, okay, Like your management of the team, ordering supplies, anything like that. What is different in this arrangement? That is different from associateship?

Jennifer Haddad:

So associateship is everything's provided to you. You have the patient overflow is provided to you, the supplies you basically use what it is that's at the office, whatever the owner is willing to provide as an associate. I remember there were certain things that I absolutely needed when I was practicing, and so that was something I had to provide myself, or I would request right and that would be the responsibility of the owner. In this situation, I came in, I brought what it is that I typically work with.

Jennifer Haddad:

I am supplying the certain tools, instruments, materials that I like and what we've done over the years, because we want to make it, we want to simplify the system. We essentially have the foundational similarities and we've come up with a list of things that we want to keep consistent on both ends. If there's something that I need, I order it and call it a day. If there's any replacements or whatnot, I do that, but essentially we have the similar materials that go in our rooms. I actually have my own room, he has his own room, but when we are not working together and I have the office to myself, we've made it comfortable to where, if I go to his room, I'm able to use his room if I need to see a patient there and we've set it up similarly. It's very collaborative at the end of the day.

Paul Etchison:

Yeah, it sounds like. I mean, you guys are very good at working together with each other, which is not surprising why you might want to partner in the future. You guys are demonstrating I mean, it's like a trial run partnership that you're showing you can work well together. Now I want to talk about expenses, so labs. How does that work with you?

Jennifer Haddad:

Okay, so labs, basically we use one common lab and with the lab fees, he is the one Basically my percentage that I give to him covers the lab fee, so your only expense is the percentage that you pay.

Jennifer Haddad:

Correct. It's an all-inclusive package of hey, this is the percentage included in that that I give you is the assistants, the front staff, the rent right for the office space, the materials, the lab. So there's all of that inclusive. Whatever else is part of that list. You're leasing the digital equipment as well. I mean there's all of that fun stuff.

Paul Etchison:

So when you're running your books at the end of the year, essentially it's just, I mean you know exactly where your overhead is.

Jennifer Haddad:

Yep, I know exactly what my overhead is.

Paul Etchison:

Yeah, that's amazing. Tell me about how. About like with team members and I'm not sure this has come up with you guys or not, but I mean running a practice there's. We've we've got team members where people, we have emotions and things sometimes happen, you know, and have you had situations where you've had to be more of the boss or had issues with team members that really aren't under your, I guess, jurisdiction? I don't know what word I'm looking for, but do you know what I mean?

Jennifer Haddad:

You know. So there's an understanding that he is the owner of the practice and I am another owner of being a dentist there who sees my patients. Whenever we have any issues with employees, we will actually sit together and discuss whatever the issue is and so that we come up as a team together to resolve whatever the situation is. Again, luckily, everyone in our practice I think we're both very understanding as the bosses and so our team members are very much the same. We're all such a family. There has been obviously conflict, but the nice thing is is that you're not having to butt heads with someone. If you're the owner and you're the one in charge of always telling someone what to do, guess what? Now you have a partner in crime with you. It's kind of like you're neutralizing the situation right. There's more than one other party that could sit there and really bring the reality to the situation, I would say, because it's not one perspective, it's two.

Paul Etchison:

Does that make sense? Yeah, totally, if there's a listener listening and they're an associate right now and they're like I feel the same as Jennifer here, where there's part of me that feels like I should own a practice. But I just want to keep my time and my balance and I don't want the headache of it, but I'm not sure I want to continue to associate. Where does this fall in lines between ownership and associateship? Is this like right in the middle? How much more advantageous is this to you versus being an associate? This arrangement?

Jennifer Haddad:

I've been told that, hey, I wish I was in your position versus being a practice owner, because as a practice owner, you have an office, you have staff that you are constantly having to make sure that you are able to pay and cover those expenses right, whereas on my end I come in, I practice, I do the dentistry I want. I don't necessarily have to worry about that. You just get a portion of what it is that I am providing, and so it's a win-win because it's an added, I would say, source of revenue for the practice owner and then for myself, who wants work-life balance. I'm making more than an associate, but I'm also. It relieves the stress of having to look at the numbers so much. I don't care what business you get into, it's all a numbers game and that's what people focus on.

Jennifer Haddad:

What I love about my position is that I am not focused on the numbers. I'm really focused on my patient, because I don't have that stress of, hey, I have to hit these numbers. Or else, in terms of that position, though, for the associate, like for someone who wants to go to that route, you really have to have created your brand, you have to figure out what it is. That is your niche, what's your passion? Because if you have a following, you have a group of patients that like, love you and adore you and they just want to be with you and they refer you to other patients then, beautiful, you now have created your own practice within another practice and you could take that. That's golden. I could go anywhere with it, which is really cool.

Paul Etchison:

Yeah, I think that's an interesting part of it is because, you mentioned, when you came over, you brought a book of business where typically I mean in an associate agreement you're not allowed to bring any patients with you or solicit them. So talk about how that worked.

Jennifer Haddad:

I'm interested to hear this. I have been very fortunate to be in practices that have supported me and I've supported them, and when it was time for me to part my ways because of my growing family, the owner did inform, sent out a newsletter to the patients and told them hey, you know we're going to be, we're going to miss Dr Haddad, she's going out on her own. And he told me like, go ahead. You know, whatever patients that you want to tell you can tell. Just do me a favor, don't try to pull patients away, you know. So there was a again, a mutual respect, and is that very common in dentistry and in dental practices? I don't think so. Again, I'm a little of a unique situation and it has to be, again, an understanding of both parties. At the end of the day, the way that my business runs is based on referrals, so that's the biggest way for me. Social media has been another. My website is very basic, to be honest. That's something I need to upgrade, but I did it so simply.

Paul Etchison:

So most of your new patients you're getting from referral. You're not running a whole lot of marketing, so are you saying that you're just Instagram following Things like that?

Jennifer Haddad:

Instagram and internal referrals, really.

Paul Etchison:

Yeah.

Jennifer Haddad:

Specialists, you know. So I think that little family is such a strong network that essentially will provide Again. I am a different owner, like practice owner, right, because at the end of the day, I'm not sitting here trying to feed associates. I am trying to grow my practice, don't get me wrong. However, I'm not sitting here trying to fill five days a week, right, I'm here focused on quality dentistry. I want quality patients because with that I'm able to. I'm in Beverly Hills, I'm providing the best of the best for you, and so the fee reflects that as well. So it's all a balance of all that ownership.

Paul Etchison:

So this sounds like this is for somebody who knows what their brand is, is honed in on it and talk about what is your brand? What are some things about your brand that you portray that you're showing the patients via social media? How do you differentiate yourself being a doctor that's working within another practice but under your own brand?

Jennifer Haddad:

So I am all about quality. I am all about providing natural looking results. There is the whole cosmetic world of dentistry and we know it very well from Instagram especially and a lot of times people frown upon veneers because they look fake. Not every case is a veneer case. So, again, that's where the biomimetics comes in. Biomimetic dentistry is really conserving tooth structure and a lot of times I get referrals based on the fact that I won't sit there and say, oh, you need 10 veneers. Oh, you're a 10 veneer case. You want to look prettier? You're a 10 veneer? No veneers. Oh, you're a 10 veneer case. You want to look prettier, you're a 10 veneer.

Jennifer Haddad:

No, that's not the way that I actually will care for my patients. Every case is different, you know, and there are different options, there are different outcomes. So that's really my brand. My brand is my passion in my art for my patients. But really, I just had a patient yesterday and she goes. I really love. And really I just had a patient yesterday and she goes. I really love coming here because you really love your job, you love what you do. I'm sitting and taking a photo of her smile and she's sitting there and saying this to me and she tells me, now that I've done my teeth, I'm looking at other people's teeth and now I get to conversate with other people who saw other dentists and even my temporaries look natural. So again, it's my brand is all about natural, conservative, quality. Cosmetic dentistry is really what it is.

Paul Etchison:

It's interesting because, like when you're an associate, sometimes people will be like, well, I don't really want to work on like my social media presence right now because I don't own my own office yet, but it's almost like you can start building your personal brand as soon as you get out of school and in a situation like where you did, where you've got a following, where people will follow you to whatever office you go to. Now, if someone listening is saying you know what, I think this kind of sounds interesting to me and something I might want to try, how would you suggest that they approach or find somebody to work this arrangement with?

Jennifer Haddad:

So the biggest thing here is really networking, getting to know your community, your support system, because, at the end of the day, every dentist is not just alone. You're going to CE courses, you're going to different dental events, and that's really where you can connect with others. That's how I found my teammate, because we have CE that we need to complete. You're kind of killing two birds with one stone not only are you furthering your education, keeping your license up to date, but now you're networking and you're getting to know who's out there, what they're all about. Do they own a practice? What is it that they practice? And that's really a big, big piece of advice that I would suggest.

Jennifer Haddad:

But the most important thing is really understanding your niche in dentistry. Do you want to be the jack of all trades in what it is that you do? Because, yes, you could go ahead and you can place implants, do extractions, you have oral surgery, endo, do the cosmetic. But I think that you have to figure out yourself first. And once you figure out what it is that you are wanting to focus on, and you really hone down on that and you make it your passion, because really you have to be passionate about what it is that you do, because I don't think it'll really work if you're just doing it for monetary reasons or whatnot. So passion has to be there, money will follow. Figure that out, network and then from there you could see what the opportunities are that are out there and you can create that arrangement.

Jennifer Haddad:

But it takes time. It does take time. I had to sit there and connect with different colleagues. I took the time outside of my work schedule to visit their practices, to have meetings with them to see how things run, and really there is such a golden ticket in each practice and it's amazing what's out there. And, by the way, no work environment is perfect. I think you have to understand that Whether you've created your own office space or whether you join someone, or whether you're an associate or whatever it may be, there's pros and cons and when you get that understanding, you have more of a realistic expectation of the other partner in crime right, the other person, no matter what title they have, and then that's when you can work together.

Paul Etchison:

Yeah, I think all of us doctors could use a little bit more flexibility.

Jennifer Haddad:

We all need that.

Paul Etchison:

In our attitudes.

Jennifer Haddad:

We all need that. You can't, you cannot have an ego. You have to be open to learning. That's the biggest thing you know.

Paul Etchison:

so it's so true. Well, Jennifer, thanks so much for coming on and sharing this model. I think this is really cool and, who knows, maybe this would be the future of dentistry at some point, where there are these dental WeWorks where you provide the whole staff and you just have you know private contracting dentists come in. It's really interesting.

Jennifer Haddad:

I've been thinking about this as a business model actually. So, no, it's been fun and I love it. It's been great, so I hope that whoever's listening, this has been something that could give you maybe an idea, and you can run with it because it's been great for me.

Paul Etchison:

Awesome, dr Jennifer Haddad. Thank you so much.

Jennifer Haddad:

Thank you so much.

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