When Great Employees Become Bad Leaders

Your great employee just became a bad leader... what happened?

This episode unpacks why even the best employees aren't fit for leadership and how to tell if you've promoted the wrong person. From the traits that make a good lead to awkward demotions, you'll learn how to avoid expensive mistakes (and what to do when you've already made one).

Topics discussed:

• Why great employee struggle in leadership roles
• How to tell if someone's in the wrong seat
• The yearly leadership "invite"
• How to demote without losing them
• The accountability chart that takes you out of every decision
• An exercise that reveals how unclear your roles really are
• Skills that every lead needs

This episode was produced by Podcast Boutique https://www.podcastboutique.com

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Transcript

When Promotions Go Sideways

Paul Etchison 0:02

Let's say you have somebody on your team. They're awesome. They're loyal. They're hardworking. They're amazing with patience. And you just know that they're the best person at their position. So then you promote them to the lead. You want a leadership team. You want someone to help you run the practice and take some of the things off your plate and you put them into the lead position. And things start to get weird fast. Suddenly, the person that used to be your rock is missing details. They're avoiding accountability. They're showing up differently, or maybe they're creating tension with the rest of the team. They're just not getting along with people like they used to. And you're stuck asking yourself a really uncomfortable question. Did this person change, or did I just put them into the wrong seat? Because leadership inside a dental practice, it's tricky. A great assistant does not automatically become a great lead assistant. A great front desk person does not automatically become a great office manager. And a lot of practice owners, they promote people into these leadership positions and they know it's the wrong person, and they avoid the conversation for so long because they're just afraid of hurting somebody's feelings or losing that good employee altogether, who was a great employee before they were promoted into this role. So today, that is what we're talking about. We're talking about what actually happens when good team members stop performing at the same level, how to know whether someone's struggling or simply in the wrong role, and what real leadership accountability should look like inside a growing practice. Now you're listening to the Dental Practice Heroes podcast, the show for dentists who want more profit, more freedom, better systems, and a practice that does not completely depend on them every second of the day. I'm your host, Dr. Paul Edgeson. I'm a practicing dentist, a practice owner, I'm a dental coach, and I'm an author who helps dentists create more profitable practices without sacrificing their time, relationships, or sanity. And today I am joined by my two DPH coaches, Dr. Steven Markowitz, the owner of six practices in the Boston area, and Dr. Henry Ernst, the owner of an 18 operatory practice in North Carolina. Now, both of these guys, they're not just teaching this stuff, they're living it every day inside their own practices. They're building teams, developing leaders, and they're creating systems that actually work in real life. So they know what they're talking about and they walk the walk. All right, let's dive in.

Why Lead Roles Feel Vague

Paul Etchison 2:36

So, I mean, Steve, you've got a pretty big organization. Do you see this happen in your organization when you add people and move people up?

SPEAKER_02 2:43

Unfortunately, we see it often. And I usually it's because of my limitations as a leader or the leader who's in charge of these people that they're trying to develop. And we see that because as you go from chair side to managing people, the responsibilities become more vague. And when they're vague, it's easy for us to slip into this position of like carrying the weight of a team without actually digging in and understanding what is my day-to-day job supposed to do. And for me, where I think I've gotten myself in trouble with this, is you had this dental assistant or this hygienist or a front desk person who you just love. And you love them for what they were and how they were able to help you. But when you like my I'm thinking of my assistant, when we just started, it was just, you know, we were just working on as many teeth as possible. And and that was a good day, was just seeing 20 patients or whatever the heck we we did. And then as we continued to grow and add more people, that role evolved. And now she wasn't just my chair side assistant, she was in charge of the of all the assistants. And then because of that, her responsibility changed. And I think if I were to ask her, she would say, like, I feel like I have the weight of this entire team that I'm responsible for. And it's hard for me to still continue to be chairside with you, or it's hard for me to do all these tasks.

Paul Etchison 4:08

But see, like the thing is, is it's it's hard. I mean, like, what do you even tell these people that they're supposed to be doing? A lot of times we don't tell them anything. They're supposed to be in charge of everybody. But this it reminds me kind of like this story that I've had where my hygiene lead and my assistant lead, they were spending like full two days planning for a quarterly meeting, which is great. And I'm so thankful that they were. But a lot of it was planning out like the game that we were gonna play.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Yeah.

Paul Etchison 4:36

And I'm looking at their hourly and saying, wow, this was a very expensive game. Like, I'm so happy you did this team activity. But at the same time, what else did you do? You know?

SPEAKER_02 4:48

It's hard because it's like it's supposed to be in service of the people that they're leading. But I think if you peel it away, the game's actually fun. And the game doesn't actually work, so they want to be doing those types of things. So it is it's a really delicate balance. And I think the challenging part for us in these positions of watching our practice grow is at any point where if we were to ask that hygiene lead to do something for us, they would stop everything and do it. Yeah. So they're still really helpful for us. But in service of their team, maybe we're missing something in it. I do think that becomes a challenge as you put people in positions that you may not know how to manage them properly.

Paul Etchison 5:29

Well, I had somebody ask me the other day, and I'll I'll pass this to you as how it's going at your office, Henry, if you had this as well. Is I had a coaching client ask me the other day, like, what do your leads do all day if they're not seeing patients? And I said, Well, they just lead stuff. Like, no, but but but the reality is, is I don't know. I'm not really sure. As far as I'm concerned, we are meeting our goals and things are getting done, and I'm happy, and it doesn't have to go through me. So if that is my barometer, we are successful. But I don't really know. Henry, like, what's your thoughts on what Steve and I are talking about over

Core Values And Hard Conversations

Paul Etchison 6:06

here?

Henry Ernst 6:06

Yeah, so I think what well, one of the things that stinks about dentistry in 2026, still we deal with human beings. Human beings, as are people that work for us, they all have different character traits and stuff like that. So maybe a similar situation to you, Steve, is as we grow, we have people that are a great dental assistant and they're so helpful. They go out out of the way for everything. And then we say, you know what? Let's elevate them, let's move them to a different position, or maybe let's put them in a position of leadership. Well, you know what? That requires a different skill set. And how do we know that this person is gonna be good in this skill set, right? Because maybe they look at this as a position of entitlement, or maybe like we were trying to phrase this podcast before we started, I kind of said, like, well, when a good employee goes bad, right, what do we do? How does that look? And I've had this happen a couple times in the last seven, eight years. One prime example that's fresh top of mind. We have a front desk team lead that just recently, in the last six months, was not not acting like a leader, not being a servant leader, showing up to work late and doing this and that. And so we had to just tell her, like, listen, you're not being a good example for everybody else. It's not a good site for our leadership team. So we need to end this leadership responsibility, which is a hard thing because what are all the dentists out there thinking when that happens? Oh my God, they're gonna feel insulted, and this person's gonna leave altogether. And they're a good employee, otherwise, at that front desk position. But we, you know, we were honest and we lead by our core values. Our core values are productive, enthusiastic, and trustworthy. And listen, these things aren't working. So we still want you to be part of the team, but the leadership situation is not working out right now. And it ended well, and everything is all still good, right? Did they leave? No, no. She just she amicably left the leadership position, but we're still here and still working hard as a front. But that's a great example of somebody's skill set was great for one thing, but it wasn't great for the other thing. And you didn't know. I mean, if we use sports as an example, how many great athletes out there are great athletes? Magic Johnson, great example, right? But when he was a coach, it just didn't work. It didn't work at all. That was a different skill set that he just didn't have, right? So we have to think about that as we're growing practices and we're we have these great team members and we know they're good in one role. We have to really think about, and sometimes it's you just have to try it. And that's why I'm a big proponent of when we establish a leadership team, it's an invitation. We invite you to come on board with the leadership team, and we call it it's a yearly invite. It's not forever, it's a yearly invite, and every year we're gonna re-invite you. Or in this case, we de-invited you, and it was okay. Why reinvite at all?

Paul Etchison 8:57

Why not just de invite?

Henry Ernst 8:59

Well, every year we're re-evaluing, we say, hey, I'm just curious, like a re-invite.

Paul Etchison 9:02

Like, are you reinviting like the leadership team gets together and then somebody shows up to work? They're like, wait, there's a leadership meeting, and they're like, Oh yeah, you didn't get invited again.

Henry Ernst 9:11

You know, obviously we meet every week.

Paul Etchison 9:12

Years up, sit at the front.

Henry Ernst 9:15

You're back on board for another year, right? So I think the main thing is it's not forever. Because then what I have found is sometimes people can take things as an entitlement and they're gonna use it as a position of power. Well, that doesn't go with our core values, so that is gonna be, huh, we need to disinvite you. So it's not just imperturity forever.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

When you get disinvited, is there a change in compensation?

Henry Ernst 9:39

No, great question. And I hear this a lot when we start leadership teams, is leadership teams do not get paid at a more hourly rate, but where you're asking them to do things. So we do have a leadership meeting once every week. So, hey, there's an extra hour on your salary every week. But also, we do have a quarterly bonus system that we have, and everybody shares in a quarterly bonus system. If you're a leadership team member, you get a double share. So you do get that. And then also I make the leadership team a fun thing. Every January for our yearly leadership meeting, we always go somewhere fun. And I let the team pick it and I give them a budget. In the past years, we've gone to Nashville, we've gone on a cruise, we've gone to Sarahville, Tennessee. So we've done lots of things. So it's it makes it fun, and they're happy to do it because they do work really hard.

Paul Etchison 10:28

I'm curious if this person that you disinvited, were they also on the same page with us? Were they like, yeah, you know what, you're right, I don't want it anymore.

Henry Ernst 10:38

Yes, yes. And, you know, when we had a heart to heart, it was talking about how, well, the reason why I haven't been a good servant leader and a good model for a leader is she's got issues in personal life, you know, things going on and family stuff. And so it was an amicable, listen, it's great, and we don't treat anybody any differently. Everything's the same. It's just, hey, the leadership team wasn't working for you right now. But I think the main thing, the premise of what we're talking about is with team members that and something starts to go south. You have to address it. This goes with anything, not just leadership teams. So if you're listening out there, you don't have a leadership team. What about if I just have a team member, all of a sudden they're not performing at the same level? We always talk about establishing core values. Always lead and teach with your core values. For us, productive, enthusiastic, trustworthy. Listen, Paul, these things that you've been doing have not been in our core values. We don't like you vaping in the in the break room there. That's not good, Paul. You gotta stop that. I'm addicted. I know, but even so, it's not going our core values, Paul. We want to keep you here, so can we change that, right?

Paul Etchison 11:40

So it's a disease. My addiction is a disease. Are you not respecting my disease? I gotta show you the ADA laws. It says I can vape here.

Henry Ernst 11:49

Really?

Paul Etchison 11:50

No, I don't think it does.

Henry Ernst 11:52

Let's see.

Paul Etchison 11:52

I'm yeah, but I'm I'm gonna go outside and vape whenever I want, Dr. Henry, and I'm not clocking out. What are we saying to that, Steve? Asshole.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

I'm saying I appreciate that. That uh again does not align with trustworthy, enthusiastic, and productive. So I think this may not be the best place for you.

Paul Etchison 12:16

We need a core value of vaping.

Henry Ernst 12:18

The longer in practice, you're gonna see this stuff. Like we had, I know we talked about it on the podcast about eight months ago or so, where I had to dismiss an office manager. And she started at the very bottom of a dental assistant, then a hygiene assistant, worked her way up, leadership team, dental assistant, office manager. And all of a sudden, there was just the team member was not doing things right anymore. I think that level of position just she wasn't didn't have that skill set. And this

Wrong Seat Versus Fireable Behavior

Henry Ernst 12:45

was an example where the it was just a outright termination. But you have to do what's right by the practice, you have to lead with your core values, and just because a team member's been there a long time doesn't mean they're they're part of the institution forever.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

Henry, how did you determine whether or not she was just in the wrong seat and you wanted to give her the opportunity to go back to a different lead position versus just termination?

Henry Ernst 13:10

There were if things have just gone too south. It was just there were things that were egregious that were happening that were fireball offenses. Yeah. Not just, hey, let's have you off of because let's use this current example, right? Person that's a good team member otherwise, just recently has been performing. They've been on the leadership team for a couple years now. And just listen, we need to take this responsibility off your shoulders. And it's not good for the rest of the team. Because a leader should be the person who, you know what, there's paper on the floor. We pick it up, right? And we see the bathroom and that's messed up. We just go do it. We don't ask, we just said we're a servant leader, and she wasn't doing those things. So it's all about the communication. Like she agreed, I need to step down from this, I need to focus on my work that I do, but also my work at home.

Paul Etchison 13:58

Does your leadership team have a lot of fluidity since its inception? Or is this just more recently that you're holding them to a higher standard, or is this like the pattern at your office? Because like for me, I always struggle with like, am I just like, are my standards way too high? You know, and I know that's like to a certain extent, you say they can't be, but at a certain point, I'm just like, you know what, things are good enough. Like, let's relax. Kind of like this whole thing with accepting like an A minus A practice and not putting in the extra energy to make it A plus. That's what I struggle with myself is like, is that A plus really worth it? Do you know what I'm saying, Henry? Like, so yeah, Henry, back to the question. Are you always this fluid in your leadership team?

Henry Ernst 14:38

No, this is a rarity. I'd say we started a leadership team 2017, and there's still people that are on the original leadership team. And so, you know, there's it's like anything else in a practice. People leave for one reason or another, people move, this happens, that happens. But I would say we're pretty pretty straightforward. But I love a mentor taught me like every year, just re-up. Think of it like a sport team, like where you just new contract, like, hey, everybody's good with because it's a marriage. They have to be willing to do it. There's some times where you know what, this takes more work, and maybe I'm not willing to do it anymore. Maybe we need to pass the baton to somebody else and have them switch. So I love the fact that it's not forever, it's a yearly thing. And sometimes I've never had it happen where somebody says, I don't want to do this anymore. Most of the time it's they're doing something and they're not acting the same as they did before, and we have to correct them.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Paul, how do you know if it's an A minus? Well, I think I think that's where when you were saying that, if you're hitting your numbers and your team is happy and you're feeling like everyone knows what they're supposed to be doing, and everyone's rowing a guy, like it's not like as clear cut of an A versus an A minus. So what are you feeling that makes you think that you're in an A minus, that you're just it's because my standards are so high?

Standards And The A Minus Debate

Paul Etchison 15:53

You know what I would say is that's a good question, because like what is like the score chart that I'm making that off of, that assumption off of maybe it is an assumption, but I would say what I am thinking is that if I could spend more time there with certain departments going over certain things and holding certain people accountable, I know the performance could be better. That's what I'm saying. I am saying relative to the to the true potential that I do believe we have. Yes. What's the limiting factor there? Me.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Of course. So then I agree with that. Then why why is that a demerit or a mark on the leadership team?

Paul Etchison 16:30

I don't think it is on the leadership team. I'm saying if I was to expect that same kind of result from my leadership team, like if I'm to expect that they would do everything that I would do and it would run as good as it would if I were there caring about it every day. Yes. I have to hold them. Should I be holding them to that standard? Is that unrealistic? Or is it just good enough and I just need to chill and just enjoy my life more?

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Could you do both? Where my guess, I'm in the same bucket that I don't have as effective meetings, or I am not as structured as I really could be, and I still let some fires show up on my phone. But if I were to be a lot more organized and structured and maximize those meetings and maximize my one-on-one time, I could keep it contained within that time frame. So would that be something that could be helpful for you? I'm not sure I know what you mean, Steve.

Paul Etchison 17:26

What uh where like I just want the practice to leave me alone, Steve. I don't want them to bother me anymore. I don't want to stop bothering me. I love the honesty. They're not going to know that without you telling me.

SPEAKER_02 17:37

No, they're no, I don't. And without you holding them accountable to those types of things. Where I'm going back to get back to the to our original point is so you have this employee that is, or this person on your leadership team that isn't performing, they're at an A minus, and Paul's head is exploding. What do you do next? Like, how do you get them to a place where Henry has the ability to have this conversation where it's real, but yet that person still wants to be part of the team.

Paul Etchison 18:03

That's a very delicate and talented approach that must be taken. I say you leave them at A minus and you say, you know what, good enough.

Henry Ernst 18:10

I disagree. Now you're telling everybody that mediocrity is okay.

Paul Etchison 18:14

Yeah, but I don't think A minus is not mediocrity in my mind. Like I think you're meeting all your goals.

Henry Ernst 18:19

I think you're right, Paul. I agree with you. Like these actions that I'm talking about is not an A minus to me. Like not showing up for work late consistently and this and that. That's something that's not a leader. That's not something we want to model ourselves off of. I look at that as like a C minus or a D. So that's a situation where, hey, we need to set a standard for everybody and let them see that this is not acceptable. And they appreciate that. And I will say this while it was in my head is there's nothing wrong with a new new energy or somebody else on the leadership team that wasn't there before. They bring, you know, new energy to the group there. And I think a lot of our listeners, a lot of them are probably in that earlier phases of practice. Practice hasn't been there that long. Maybe they don't have a leadership team. These are things that you're gonna encounter as you go along, right? We've had a leadership team for almost nine years now, right? You're not gonna see these things when you're just starting. So these are conversations that you're gonna have down the line.

Paul Etchison 19:15

Well, I wonder a good question would be is like we say, like that we promote people beyond their skill set. What is the skill set that we need to be teaching to our leads so that they can be successful in that position? What are the new things that they need to take on?

SPEAKER_02 19:30

There is what is that law we promote people to a level of incompetence? I think that is actually something that has been proven.

Clarity Through Expectations And Metrics

SPEAKER_02 19:37

But an exercise that we recently did in our leadership team was we actually went around and had everyone write down the expectations of the other person in the seat. Like, what are the five things this person is supposed to be doing? And the unique thing that we found out was there were five people sitting around the table, four different answers for each of the positions. So, what that told me was like we don't have enough clarity. Like, if we don't know and we're sitting here talking to each other all the time, how can the people that we're trying to serve have that expectation? So we need to go back and first, like, I know what our job descriptions say. That's great. But is that clear enough for everyone to understand what your day-to-day responsibility is? And are you in it enough to know what's happening? So I found that exercise incredibly enlightening. And I think I don't know if it needs to be done every year, but it would be helpful for to revisit, like Henry does, to revisit that leadership team and be like, all right, guys, we've done this, we're crushing it. Let's just make sure we're all aligned of how we're seeing our own, our own job. What do you think I'm supposed to do? What do you think you're supposed to do? Maybe we have to revisit the metrics that we have that we are using to measure our success. I don't think it's just just set it and forget it, leadership team. That's where we can get ourselves into trouble.

Accountability Chart And Lead Skill Sets

Henry Ernst 20:56

I'm going to answer your question, Paul, in the simplest terms that a lot of dentists can understand. I want your team to leave you alone too. And so the best thing ever about a leadership team is when you first start out, you do an accountability chart and can make it a poster. So everybody understands where I go for what. So essentially the doctor should be at the very, very top. And I'm not saying the doctor's on a pedestal or better than anybody else, but each leadership team member has people underneath them. So everybody underneath them should understand that if I have a problem, this is who I go to. And I never, it never goes up the chart. The only time it goes up to the chart is if those two people can't resolve something and then they go to the practice manager, not me. And if everybody understands that, then that's going to let the doctor to be left alone. But to answer your question you had before, what skill set do we should we look for? We need to have somebody who's just a natural problem solver and somebody who is good with having conversations and listening and can solve problems. And you learn that from just watching people's interactions. You know, you have that dental assistant that, oh man, the patient comes in with a Adenture and they they just solved the problem. They figured they solve it. They got it. Doc, I'm good. Took care of this, right? That's a problem solver.

Paul Etchison 22:07

So essentially we're looking at if we had to pick a skill that we should be teaching to our leads, it's I mean, it's leadership skills, but it's like conflict resolution, accountability conversations. I mean, it's almost those just those two. And leading by example. That's what I was about to say. Yep. Yeah. I feel like I want an accountability chart where I'm not even on it. Like I'm on the other. Like, where is he on the accountability chart? Oh, he's at home. He's in coming today.

Henry Ernst 22:31

Well, we could just put you higher up. We could hit return a couple times before we print it. So you're so far away.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Yeah. Traction has the owner's box, right? That's not even on the accountability chart.

Paul Etchison 22:41

Oh, it's not. I like traction now.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

No, Henry, you're you're more of an EOS guy than me, but isn't the owner's box, isn't that outside of the accountability chart?

Henry Ernst 22:48

I believe so. Don't quote me on that.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

There you go, Paul. You're on the owner's box.

Paul Etchison 22:52

I think if anything, we're supposed to think about these conclusions we could draw from this is that we should be addressing mediocrity. I mean, always, you know, whether it's a lead or whether it's not. We should be giving the skills to our leads that we need them to have. But then at the same time, I think in any management position, there's almost an unlimited things of that we could be doing. So like part of me thinks, and I do not have this at my practice. I don't have it. This is just my thought process right now, is like a prioritization chart, is like what is your top priorities? Because to me, when I look at a management position, it's infinite. It's almost like it's like the, it's like the call uh the people that didn't schedule, like the unscheduled treatment list. That goes on forever. I mean, I guess hypothetically you could get to the end of it, but you really can't. You need like you hypothetically could, but it's just such a big list, especially if you're in Steve's practice and he's your doctor.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Yeah, because no one accepts my treatment, right? Is that what you're saying? There's just this long list of people that have never accepted. Yeah, I guess.

Paul Etchison 23:50

They just didn't like him.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

Steve, did you used to do magic with your patients? No, but I I I wish there are two things that I wish I could do. I wish I played the piano, and I wish I could do magic. Ah, yeah. If I would just show up in a hotel lobby and there's a piano there and I got a deck of cards and I'm like pulling things out behind people's ears, like how freaking cool would that be?

Paul Etchison 24:11

I'm sensing a second career here, Steve. What would you pull out behind people's ears in the dental office? Be like, what's this? Oh, floss, you ever seen this before?

SPEAKER_02 24:19

I'm thinking I'd be so good at taking teeth out. They think, you know, they think I'm gonna go in through their mouth. I come in through the ear.

Paul Etchison 24:26

Literally, tooth comes out through their ear. When are you gonna take this tooth out? Look in your hand. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

And then I'm holding their watch.

Paul Etchison 24:37

That's crazy. Well, if anyone's listening right now is thinking of joining Steve's Magic School, it is set for 2020. Dude, I I need to go to school before I can teach it. But that day will come. Yeah. Well, you know what?

Key Takeaways And Next Steps

Paul Etchison 24:51

I think this is a good stopping point. You know, if you're looking for building these leadership teams, like as you can hear from these guys here, we've got it figured out to a point that it works, but you are never done. You were never in done improving. You're always learning, you're always learning how to master this further. And no matter how perfect your systems are, just as Henry shared, people need to change and you need to make pivots and you need to change things and and stay on top of things. And and always, as uh Steve mentioned, like we got to recalibrate sometimes too. You know, we gotta stay in um what are our core values? Actually, I think that was Henry that said that, but Steve, I'm gonna let you have that one. Steve, that was such a brilliant thing you said, I think.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

It was the smartest thing I ever stole from Henry.

Paul Etchison 25:32

I think one of the biggest takeaways from this conversation is that leadership inside a practice is not static. It's always changing. People grow, practices evolve, responsibilities change. And just because somebody is or was incredible in one role doesn't automatically mean they're gonna thrive in the next one. So we got to be careful about that. And that doesn't make them a bad employee. That often like is the next step is like it's we have this great employee, and then all of a sudden they're in this new role. So now they're a bad employee. It doesn't make them that, and it doesn't make you a bad leader if that happens to you. But it does mean that you have to stay engaged, you have to stick with it. So here's what I want you to remember leadership positions, they need clarity, not assumptions. Good culture requires accountability. And if you're avoiding hard conversations and you're not holding people accountable, that almost always is going to create bigger problems that are more difficult to deal with later. So when these kinds of things happen in your practice, you've got to fix it. And the goal, it's not perfection, it's just more alignment. You've got to do something, you've got to get the team aligned again. You want to have the right people in the right seats, you want them to have those clear expectations, you want to teach them strong communication and you want to build the systems in your practice that allow that practice to function without everything flowing through you. That's why you created these positions in the first place. And listen, if you're building a leadership team at your practice and you're struggling with the accountability or just the organization of it or where to start or how it's supposed to work, and you just know that too much of the practice is still depending on you. That is exactly the kind of thing that we help dentists work with every single day. You can schedule a free strategy call at dentalpracticeheroes.com slash strategy. No pressure, just a quick conversation to help you get some more clarity around where your practice is now and where you can get it to go. What is your potential? And if you got value from today's episode, it would mean so much to us if you left a five star review. Those reviews, I mean, they help more dentists find the podcast. It helps us grow. So please, please do that. Thank you so much for listening. We very much appreciate you guys. Have a great week, everybody.